Conversation

mashoodkk: it is surprising to see an IITian in the sangh outfit. partly may be because i have been brought up in an anti RSS environment. But even if I shed all what has been imprinted on my mind by society, environment and upbringing and look into the matter with an objective eye, I find it hard to fathom how one could be part of an organisation which is evidently communal and preaches violence. I am perfectly aware that it wont care a shit to you how others feel....(i had a few friends during by bachelors ;) ]..but definitely would like to hear from you if you wont mind speaking ........

vikas: brother..i'd love to speak out and discuss the way you'd like it to.. but ..i'd like you to be precise with terms and defintions you quote..well i've and had a lot many frineds in IITs/IIMs and even at my work who share the same ideology of Cultural nationalism with me,,..i joined RSS around 8-9 years back..and I joined RSS not 'cause of anything but it has a feelling of patriotism and discipline..

"what has been imprinted on my mind by society, environment and upbringing"

if i may say you can wrap this whole "society, environment and upbringing" thing up in one word i.e. "MEDIA",..well RSS is the only thing which has ALWAYS been demonized by MEDIA....no act of RSS was/is never apprecialble..i directly dsicard this kind of totaly one sided and biased projection of anything..despite of anything.. i mean come on media talk about reconsidering their point of view towards Jinnah and Stalin..but RSS is still The untouchables...

whatever..

and
you are wrong..whatever you think and say is definately important to me..'cause i see myself as a PRACHARAK so what you got against my ideology is important for me for sure...as long as you are logical and reasonble..ok..so start this discussion now i'd like you to make these definition clear..
what is communal.
what is violence..
what is Hindutva.
what is culturaL nationalism.

i hope this whole discussion would be completely disassociated with the fact that we come from different communities..i'd rather like this to be associated with bein' an Indian..a responsible INDIAN..nationalism..

ciao tc:)

Mashoodkk: I consider an organisation communal and violent...........

If the organisation is responsible, directly or indirectly, in killing innocent peoples, just because they do not by birth follow the same ideology of sangh .............The organisation may give excuses and reasons which i consider lame....
If the organisation is involved in organised propaganda to incite hatred between people following different faiths, beliefs or ideas..

On a philosophical plane I also question the sacrosanctity that you people attach to nationalism. I am not against patriotism, but i am against stretching it too much. I consider humanism a more profound stand. The concept of a nation is arbitrary, it is a convention......but we humans when considered as a species, the unity has a more profound basis. Consider people living in the boundary of two nations. I think that there is no reason to consider one group as closer to us than the other just because of their nationality. Both the people share similar characteristics, cultural and biological sparing minor differences.

vikas: "On a philosophical plane I also question the sacrosanctity that you people attach to nationalism. I am not against patriotism, but i am against stretching it too much. I consider humanism a more profound stand. The concept of a nation is arbitrary, it is a convention......but we humans when considered as a species, the unity has a more profound basis.Consider people living in the boundary of two nations. I think that there is no reason to consider one group as closer to us than the other just because of their nationality. Both the people share similar characteristics, cultural and biological sparing minor differences. "

that is fine
AND

On a philosophical plane I QUESTION the SACROSANCTITY that you people attach to MATERIAL DEVELOPMENT,

this mathematics is beyond my reach that how talkin' NATIONALISM is opposing a son of soil or anyone. We got nothing against nobody irrespective of anything,
whatsoever it is. religion, nationality or anything AS LONG AS THEY DON'T INTEND TO HARM ME. Now the thing is I am very sure that "State of Pakistan" has bad intentions for me, infiltration from Bnagla desh is hiking up everyday. India is sinophobic. Now if I teach my brothers that we should ne united and trained and committed enough to fight these invasions what's wrong in that. How am I harming anyone. If I say we should be prepared enough to fight terrorism,
naxalism or any other kind of separatism then what's wrong in that. How am I preaching killing innocent people.
you are saying HUMANISM, i don;t know what point of Nationalist agenda is anti-humanism.

We say

1. We should stop politics of disintegration on the name of language, religion, or regionalism or caste.

2. We should stop atrocities on muslim women on the name of religion.

3. We say constitution of India should treat us as merely indians ..native of India not as SANATAN DHARMI or MUSLIM or MARATHI or BHAIYA or SOUTH INDIAN or CHINKI or SC or ST.

4. We must preserve our spiritual heritage to guide nation and this world .

5. We say every single brother and sister of ours should be competent enough to both physically and intellectually to stand up for himself/herself and for the India when she needs 'em.